tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post1366197834786995974..comments2024-01-22T01:52:37.473-06:00Comments on RENEGADE TRADS: What I've Been Saying All AlongA Sinnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05083094677310915678noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post-12055601929442804022010-10-19T01:20:01.339-05:002010-10-19T01:20:01.339-05:00Sure, there are people like this who seem to relis...Sure, there are people like this who seem to relish in their ignorance of the Mass they claim to love so much but nothing is ever going to be perfect. That said, in my experience (YMMV) folks usually like to learn more and are usually more than willing to hear it if you are intelligent and well read. If we had the TLM back in the whole of the Roman Rite, we'd have all the lukewarm of all types and kinds who care much less and just want to get in and out. <br /><br />As to things like dialog Masses and vernacular readings, you know, sometimes they have a point even if their actual reasons aren't the best. I, for one, like a Low Mass to be pretty quiet and I have my missal. Attempts at dialog Masses tend to be pretty awkward and even back in the day the SCR recommended such things only for "advanced" congregations. Luckily, all the Fraternity and Institute priests I come into contact with are not too keen on actually "restoring" the 1950s. <br /><br />As to the Rad Trads running the place, I don't see where that would be a problem if your just wanting to hear Mass. Afterwards, you either have to establish yourself or just not do anything but hear Mass and leave.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03286578491636129500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post-16199374975421054382010-10-12T20:09:19.666-05:002010-10-12T20:09:19.666-05:00@Anonymous: That said, I also think that the TLM i...@Anonymous: <i>That said, I also think that the TLM is somewhat like a fine restaurant. One really should do a little bit of background research to see the basic etiquette one should observe.</i><br /><br />That's true of many secular situations as well. Bread knife at 12 o'clock; use the left and right utensils from the outside inward. Belief and ritual are quite different so far as one should not only know why someone attends a liturgy but also grasp the profundity behind the liturgy. Sure, many rad trads know every twist of the Lefebrvist soap opera, have compulsively read Catholic Answers, and know their Baltimore Catechism by rote. For some reason, their liturgical development is quite underdeveloped: in fact, some boast of their ignorance of the liturgy as if the Mass is a talisman rather than the theurgical union of word and movement. I've known places where well-meaning priests introduced the dialogue Mass and vernacular readings only to be soundly denounced for no other reason than appeals to emotion, nostalgia, and "that's the way it's always been" logical fallacy. The intellectual vacuity and even anti-intellectualism of some traditionalists scares me deeply. <br /><br /><i>When you run into "rad trad" types, just don't put up with their nonsense.</i><br /><br />Okay, but the rad trad types are usually the ones that run the joint. Their presence stifles ideological moderation. If you want to raise your kids super-fundie, leave it for the homeschool and the family visits. Let's just have a ceasefire for the one or two hours we have to hear Mass together, k?sortacatholicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post-15537721542595185512010-10-12T19:38:59.209-05:002010-10-12T19:38:59.209-05:00While it might be unfortunate, there are always fo...While it might be unfortunate, there are always folks we might not like no matter where you go. <br /><br />I, for one, go to the TLM for the TLM-I could care less if there are conspiratory quacks and the "frigid ridgid" there. Overall, most people I've met at TLM parishes are fine though there certainly is some bitterness amongst some of them. <br /><br />That said, I also think that the TLM is somewhat like a fine restaurant. One really should do a little bit of background research to see the basic etiquette one should observe. Who likes a boor, and who likes being a boor? Not that such ignorance ever merits uncharitable behavior, but sometimes one saves themselves (and others) a lot of trouble by, well, doing simple things that show that they actually give a shit. <br /><br />I also think people need to grow thicker skin. Too many are influence by silly things like how "nice" people are to them. How many folks leave the Church because they found some heretical sect in which people were "nice" to them? Utter foolishness. When you run into "rad trad" types, just don't put up with their nonsense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post-43806159813170071302010-10-10T21:20:09.219-05:002010-10-10T21:20:09.219-05:00In defense of "nasty" Catholic. Polemici...In defense of "nasty" Catholic. Polemicists of previous eras, I would quote a great one , Evelyn Waugh who struggled honesty with sins against charity all his life as a Catholic<br /><br />"I I know I'm terrible but how much more terrible I should be without the Faith" <br /><br />Certainly endearing at least to meAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post-39138984069366607592010-10-09T23:21:37.109-05:002010-10-09T23:21:37.109-05:00It's all Anselm's fault.It's all Anselm's fault.FrGregACCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00368463715994694203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post-33944407908701855312010-10-09T21:57:23.101-05:002010-10-09T21:57:23.101-05:00Thanks Steve for callin' it like it is.
I&#...Thanks Steve for callin' it like it is. <br /><br />I'm never one to follow my own advice, but I always have to remind myself that the ancient liturgy will always carry with it the fundamentalists, quacks, and frigid rigid. They're akin to the bizarre in laws that no one can ever fully avoid at Christmas and reunions. It's a shame that the beauty and profundity of the ancient liturgy must be marred by such pettiness. <br /><br />A paraphrase of James Alison, with additions. Alison once observed that there's little difference between fundamentalists and leather fetishists. Both adhere to a strict uniform; both require degrees of (emotional or sexual) sadism and masochism for identity and pleasure. Pleasure? I cannot imagine why anyone would want to hang with the scolds I knew when I was traditionalist. That is, unless a person enjoyed mocking the "lukewarm" and being mocked by the even more self-righteous in return.sortacatholicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post-19718809352011164632010-10-09T08:40:48.031-05:002010-10-09T08:40:48.031-05:00Great piece, Steve. I can see that you’ve been fl...Great piece, Steve. I can see that you’ve been flamed on the original posting site and well and truly roasted over on Angelqueen. There’s a great deal that could be said about this issue, so I’ll mention only one thing. The vast majority of the “traddies”, and their most visible leaders like Fr Zuhlsdorf and Damian Thompson, show an ugly tendency toward the eristic. Sarcasm is their rhetorical tool of choice. Perhaps they think they are following in the footsteps of Waugh, Belloc, Chesterton or CS Lewis (whom they claim as one of their own, though he was profoundly anti-catholic). Not a good idea, as I see it: first, none of the sarcastic trad-bloggers can write remotely as well as the worst of their polemical predecessors; second, Belloc et al were, by many accounts, rather nasty people. <br /><br />Whether you agree with him or not (and, generally, I do) the tone of the moderator of the Pray Tell Blog is far more edifying than almost any of the traditionalist blogs. The current blog is a shining exception, as is In Exsilium. <br /><br />Long may they continue!cor ad cor loquiturhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12451088364358322952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213316015209503694.post-48472141928830692622010-10-08T09:33:06.756-05:002010-10-08T09:33:06.756-05:00Thanks for the link to my piece. Glad you enjoyed ...Thanks for the link to my piece. Glad you enjoyed it.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03954832843414652616noreply@blogger.com