There's a fascinating post and discussion going on at Vox Nova regarding this interview with some professor at Wyoming Catholic College who has written a book proposing a Catholic confessional State (albeit a tolerant one) as ideal. I'm apathetic towards "politics" generally (however, my "apathy" is actually a political ideology of sorts!), my only comment would be that I think States always support some ideology or other and that, in that case, I guess theoretically it might as well be Catholic rather than something else. I just thought it was interesting given the discussions that always arise among rad-trads about Vatican II's turnaround on some of these political issues.
7 hours ago
4 comments:
Zenit is owned by the Legion of Christ or another ultramontanist cult. No wonder! A group like that would completely dig this book.
We've had the "post-Enlightenment Catholic confessional state" already. It was called Francoist Spain. Franco was brutal dictator that did not respect the rule of law (detainment and execution without trial, sham elections, no freedom of expression), and perverted the true role of the Church in society by turning the clerics into a proxy fascist army. Who the heck would want to return to such a fucked up totalitarian world?
Still, this proposal reflects the true political endgame of orthodox Catholicism. The only way to ban abortion is through theofascism or another type of totalitarianism. Franco came very close to completely outlawing abortion in Spain. However, was that worth the cost of the brutal repression of the Spanish peoples' right to assembly and expression? This we must wrestle with when considering the logical ends we as Catholics are called to defend.
I am personally convinced that the United States will end in a totalitarian government of some sort. The divisions in this country are so marked that eventually one "side" will dominate. If the neo/paleo/theocons get their way, we will have theofascism. The state may ban abortion and other moral ills, but we'll have to trade every other constitutional freedom for it. I hope this professor's on the winning side of history if his hell on earth is realized.
Well, certainly that sort of world (which many rad-trads disturbingly romanticize) is terrible.
But, on the other hand, I look at England. Here's a State which seems to be perfectly free politically, which maintains the quaint ceremony of a monarchy, and which even has a State Church.
Of course, the Anglican Church is collapsing, but that's because it is an organ OF the State, I think. Catholicism, on the other hand, being international (and with a visible head who is Sovereign of his own small territory) would not suffer the same fate of having the political order of the day dictate its doctrines.
And as for banning abortion, Ireland or Malta have done it reasonably well without being totalitarian.
If we could combine England with Ireland (ie, make the established church the Catholic instead of the Anglican)...I don't foresee this being some sort of horrible fascist regime.
To me, if there were a tolerant confessional state, its main benefits would be State funding of the Church (no single ideology can hope to compete without money) and possibly making public education Catholic (like it was in Italy, etc) which would serve to shore up Catholicism as at least a feature of the national cultural identity, even if people were not 100% adherent.
Other religions would certainly have to be tolerated, and there could be no attempt to enforce private morality (like trying to ban condoms or anything like that).
I think a lot of people read this and instinctively think of the United States being the country in question, but I seriously don't support THAT. Like I said, I imagine this might be possible for a small European or Latin American country which was Catholic (all other things being equal; poverty in general leads to corrupt states).
Given the example of England having an established church...I don't see this as necessarily leading to the sort of fascism that some neocons or rad-trads might imagine.
And as for banning abortion, Ireland or Malta have done it reasonably well without being totalitarian.
Ireland is a strange case. Yes, Ireland's pro-life amendment (ratified by plebicite!) forbids all abortions on Irish soil. Even so, Irish women who travel to Britain for an abortion are not prosecuted for their crime. This is akin to New York State before the legalization of abortion there in 1968. Previously, abortion was technically illegal but rarely prosecuted.
Is Ireland "confessionally Catholic" if it prosecutes abortionists in its territory but not Irish women who travel abroad for abortions? Yes, because the state has fulfilled its ethical-moral mandate to prevent the procurement of abortion on its soil. The prosecution of women who travel for abortions is not only cruel and uncharitable. Prosecution could also lead to a fascistic situation as previously explained. Would we want a clerical-police state that would sexually assault women to find "evidence" of abortion? That's what we would need to prosecute women for abortion. That "evidence" would be necessarily procured through illicit and immoral means.
possibly making public education Catholic (like it was in Italy, etc) which would serve to shore up Catholicism as at least a feature of the national cultural identity, even if people were not 100% adherent.
As for the notion of confessional education &c.: Germany, Austria, and Italy provide confessional education (in the case of Germany, your child is placed in a "Protestant" or "Catholic" catechism class often taught by the local priest or pastor.) All three countries have experienced court challenges to confessional education and crucifixes in classrooms. Also, (ancedotally) a German-Hungarian Protestant friend of mine told me that the town priest told the Catholic catechism class in her high school that condoms should be used in pre-marital sex. "Confessional education" is a grab-bag, especially when catechists color outside the lines.
Bottom line: this book sounds like a fundie hallucination. It ain't gonna happen (please no!)
"a German-Hungarian Protestant friend of mine told me that the town priest told the Catholic catechism class in her high school that condoms should be used in pre-marital sex."
Right on!
As the example of those countries (Germany, Austria, Italy) prove...the State can vaguely support a Church (or churches) through funding and confessional education...and still be classically liberal secular states.
But, don't worry, it won't happen, it's just a pipe-dream. Still, I wouldn't mind a Catholic "England"...
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